Mark Rapp
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Mark Rapp


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"Top Emerging Jazz Artist"

25 for the Future: A New Generation of Trumpeters Pave the Way for Jazz's Next Innovations

Mark Rapp plays groove-oriented electric and acoustic jazz with his quartet every Friday night at the Carnegie Club in New York. He recently recorded a CD with producer Jason Olaine, and has worked as a sideman with turntablists Shitake Monkey and rock 'n' roll acts Sister Hazel and Darius "Hootie" Rucker. Rapp's five years in New Orleans instilled a love for the Crescent City tradition that colors his playing, though he is not afraid to use electronic effects such as reverb and a wah pedal. His quartet is trying to find a fertile middle-ground "between adult contemporary accessibility and modern jazz idealism." - Downbeat, June 2007

"Mark Rapp: A Young Trumpeter Rooted in Modern Jazz and Contemporary Music"

Read it here: -

"Southern Exposure 2007 Announces Line-Up"

Edwin McCain, Branford Marsalis, Mark Rapp...

Hosted by restaurateur Carl Sobocinski and platinum-selling singer and songwriter Edwin McCain, Southern Exposure will educate, entice, enlighten, and entertain. In its highly anticipated second year, this event will include exclusive tasting events, cooking demonstrations and wine seminars, as well as multi-course dinners and live musical performances. Dedicated to excellence, Southern Exposure features domestic and international wines, celebrity chefs, master sommeliers, and national recording artists (Edwin McCain, Branford Marsalis, Michael McDonald, Mark Rapp, Blue Dogs).

This weekend long event will shine a spotlight on Greenville South Carolina's thriving Culinary and Arts Communities. Greenville, situated at the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains, stands out with its award winning downtown, vast entertainment options, and diverse population. Most of the weekend's activities will take place at the Peace Center for the Performing Arts, Falls Park, various downtown restaurants and along Main Street.

Supporting the community from which this event originated, proceeds from Southern Exposure will fund the 501 (c)(3) created by Sobocinski and McCain to benefit local non-profit organizations.

Southern Exposure is a weekend destination event that will impress all with its passion for quality and value. Indulge in this inspiring weekend of activities, and expose yourself to the finest in food, wine, and music.

September 14-16, 2007
- Greenville, SC

"Grammy Winning Jazz Producer, Hip-Hop Engineer Join Forces for Trumpeter Mark Rapp's Debut Release"

Jazz trumpeter Mark Rapp recently recorded his debut effort under the producing prowess of Grammy Winner Jason Olaine (Roy Hargrove, Michael Brecker) and The Roots' engineer Robert “LB” Dorsey who has recently started working with Beyonce and her team.

Mark describes his sound as "...bridging the gap between modern and contemporary jazz music. There's a wide division between the two, both artistically and in the audiences - just go to a Christian Scott gig and then a Chris Botti gig - huge difference. I'm trying to connect the best of both worlds."

Musically, his melodies are memorable and played with passion. Artistically, Mark and his band play with fire and coax the listener into a world of improvisation. Visually, he understands there is much more to a performing art form than sound alone.

Through accessible melodies, stable harmonic structures, solid grooves, honest and raw playing and even by utilizing the earthy sounds of a didgeridoo, Mark engages everyone from the layman to the most hardened critic.

Currently, Mark's record is being mixed and introduced to various labels to find their new home. -

"Changing Jazz Paradigms"

“I think you can uphold jazz ideals, be true to the music and yet still bring the greater public onboard with it,” says jazz trumpeter Mark Rapp. Perhaps more than anyone else among today’s trumpeters, Rapp is breaking down the age-old paradigms as to how the trumpet ought to be played in a jazz environment.

Rapp is not stretching the boundaries out of disrespect for jazz history and tradition, but he is a composer and a player who is looking for an opportunity to enhance the music that he loves. He is not afraid to take risks and experiment with his music to accomplish that end.

Rapp likes to incorporate popular pieces of music, such as “Green Eyed Lady,” into his live performances. “It has a killing bass line, it’s funky and it grooves. It gives you a platform to play on and a fun platform at that. It has good energy, good time and at moments it can be aggressive. It is a cool tune. We have tried other songs such as ‘Time Of The Season,’ but it just didn’t work. It came off sounding like a karaoke tune. Some tunes just don’t lend themselves to being translated into a jazz vehicle,” he says.

Rapp explains the approach that he takes when approaching the popular music that he includes in his repertoire: “As to how I play a [popular] song, as a trumpet player, I play it how I hear it, instead of trying to emulate the vocals. The trumpet has a certain brassiness to it, and it isn’t always as conducive as a saxophone playing the same [tune]. When I am playing one of these popular melodies, I [feel] I have to state it clear enough that people can hear the melody. I put my own vibe on it, my own phrasing and my own dynamic.” He adds that he takes some of his phrasing cues from masters such as Miles Davis and Terence Blanchard.

One would hope that most musicians would be passionate about their craft, but it is surprising just how passionate Mark Rapp is about the music and his listening public. He strives to make his music accessible to as vast an audience as possible, without comprising the integrity of jazz ideals. For the sake of comparison, and not being critical, Rapp cites examples of several modern-day trumpet players whom he feels are genuinely concerned with honing their straight-ahead jazz skills, but make little attempt to provide the listener with accessibility to their music.

“All they are concerned about is playing great trumpet, learning and studying the most they can about music, while taking it and developing it further. Sometimes the layperson gets lost and they don’t quite understand. It is like jumping into the middle of a chess game, you don’t know what is going on. It is really fascinating, but you don’t really understand it. What I am trying to do is allow a way in for the general public. The way that I do that is by presenting melodies that are known, grooves that you can nod your head to. I try to give them grooves that they are used to hearing. If they are used to hearing Dave Matthews, and they say give us some of that, I say okay, I can get on board with this. That is what we do. We go for it and explore the modern jazz ideals. What I try to do is bridge the gap between the jazz artists. You will get the audience for a Dave Matthews, Chris Botti, or Radiohead type crowd, but you are also playing some good music that others are going to love. You can play some interesting changes overtop of the usual changes,” says Rapp.

To say that Mark Rapp is simply an artist who blends contemporary jazz music with traditional genre ideals would be doing him a huge disservice. He thinks outside the box, pushes the creative boundaries, and looks for new ways to enhance his compositions. For instance, with his song “1st Minute, 1st Round,” Rapp plays the didgeridoo, an instrument first used by the aboriginal people of Australia. Being an enthusiast when it comes to the didgeridoo I was pleasantly surprised at how Rapp seems to have lifted the instrument beyond its usual application to produce a deep, heavy drone. Set against the backdrop of the other instruments, in his ensemble the didgeridoo takes on a faintly melodic attitude.

Rapp explains how he uses the didgeridoo during his live performances: “We us it to lay down a vibe and foundation, then we blow. It is completely free, improvised and in the moment. There really is no structure, except that we are trying to build a tune with some high points and low points. We definitely experiment live, and on the spot, but always maintaining some sort of accessibility. [It may] have a backbeat to it, or start off simple, then we develop it and go along for the ride.”

Rapp first picked up the didgeridoo when he was living in New Orleans. He joined a group called the New World Funk Ensemble, which had written a new composition that called for a didgeridoo. Rapp picks up the story from here: “I didn’t know what it [the didgeridoo] was, but they [the band] introduced me to it. A guy in New Orleans, who makes didgeridoos out of PVC pipe, made one for me that was in the right key for the song. He taught me the basic technique and gave me a couple of CDs to listen to so I could hear how it sounded, and how people played it. It took the better part of a week for me to get a handle on it. [Laughing he says] I remember on the first gig, I had to jam on it for seven or eight minutes. I made it through the first tune, but I was just so exhausted and my abs were burning. I was blowing way too hard.”

“I really just taught myself how to play it. I have never really studied how the aboriginal people approach the instrument or the folklore behind it. I just had fun with the instrument. I notice when I am playing gigs in jazz clubs, people can get [blasé] about other instruments, but when you bring out the didgeridoo it is a whole other world. Everyone lights up and is fascinated by it. What I like to do is put some beats on it, put some rhythms on it, put it through a wah-wah pedal and give it some effects. You put it through the mic, which converts it to a digital signal, and once you have a digital signal, you can do anything that you want with it,” says Rapp.

Mark Rapp with HootieRapp’s musical influences have come from several sources. Several years ago, he would sit in with the alternative/ southern rock group, Sister Hazel, when the Floridians were touring in Rapp’s native South Carolina. Other artists that he has shared the stage with include Branford Marsalis, Darius Rucker and Hootie and the Blowfish.

“I think anytime that you sit in with another musician, on any type of music, it pulls you out of your comfort zone. I think that is what life is all about. It is about trying new things. It makes you a more well-rounded musician. When you are dealing with other musicians and songwriters it really forces you to simplify and not play with so many notes. [You learn] to play with a sense of color and expression. You learn how just a few notes can enhance the music, and make the experience two thousand times better. When you take that knowledge and experience into a jazz tune, you begin to understand that you don’t have to play all these licks and crazy things. It gets into what Miles Davis kept on preaching--simplify, simplify. If you listen to a lot of his stuff, he is not playing a lot of [complicated] music. He is playing simple notes and then taking a break. Then he plays a couple of more notes. That is how we communicate, we say something, we pause, you say something back, and pause. I think that is a little truer to life.”

Obviously, there are a lot of music fans out there who agree with Rapp’s observations because on August 7th in New York City at Joe’s Pub, he unleashed his still-untitled debut CD. The venue was sold out, and would-be concertgoers were turned away at the door. At the end of the evening, Rapp and his band received a standing ovation from the appreciative audience.

The album is comprised of sixteen tracks, which were recorded over two weekends. Rapp did not hold back on this CD, employing the services of Grammy Award-winning producer Jason Olaine (John Scofield, Roy Hargrove) and sound engineer Robert “L.B.” Dorsey (Beyoncé).

Rapp says he was able to cross over the lines of traditional jazz, yet still was able to retain the integrity of jazz music. “There are hip hop influences, not so much that you lose the organic nature of jazz music. We approached it as half-jazz and half-hip hop. We recorded it in jazz fashion, in terms of running the tunes and doing the takes.

On September 16th, Rapp and his ensemble played two sets of their own material and backed up Branford Marsalis for a third set at Southern Exposure 2007 in downtown Greenville, South Carolina. On October 10th, fans in New York City will have the opportunity to hear Rapp and his band present selections from his still-to-be-named CD at the Triad Theater.

"Top Emerging NY Jazz Trumpeter Returns Home to the Carolinas"

Mark Rapp and Branford Marsalis will present an exciting Jazz Brunch at this year’s Southern Exposure Festival in Greenville, SC on September 16. Downbeat Magazine hailed SC-raised trumpeter Mark Rapp as one of the current Top Emerging Jazz Trumpeters. Now living in New York City, Rapp says “I’m very excited and honored to be performing back home.”

This will be Mark's second year performing for Southern Exposure’s Jazz Brunch. Last year he also played alongside celebrated Chef Iverson Brownell during the festival's Food & Music seminars. "It was like Emeril Live," Rapp said, "There was live cooking, live music, and a live explanation of both - except I bet you Chef Brownell’s southern cooking was better!" Edwin McCain, co-host of Southern Exposure, also participated in last year's event with local chef and restaurant owner, Steve Leitch.

You can catch the Mark Rapp Group playing at Restaurant O on Thursday and Friday nights (September 13, 14) to gear up for the weekend’s events. On Saturday, you’ll find them participating in the Food & Music seminars and the Sunday Jazz Brunch has Mark playing 2 sets, one before and one after Branford Marsalis. “I’m very thrilled be on the same bill as Branford. To my ears, he’s the greatest jazz musician around. I can not wait until that brunch performance!”

Raised in SC, Rapp attended Winthrop University where he had a most propitious meeting with Wynton Marsalis, which led him to study under Ellis Marsalis at the University of New Orleans and earned a Masters in Jazz. Rapp said, “Growing up in SC gave me a solid foundation. And now, having lived in a few different places, I appreciate it [SC] more than ever.”

A few years ago, when Darius Rucker released his R&B solo effort, Rapp performed in his touring band. Having attended the annual “Monday after the Masters” charity for years, Mark has had the opportunity to play with Edwin McCain and Sister Hazel. “Darius has so much soul – I can’t say enough about how much I enjoy his voice. And Edwin is one bad cat… his passion screams through his music. I’m just trying to be apart of this rich Carolina tradition.”

Rapp recently recorded his debut effort under the supportive eye of Grammy Award winning producer Jason Olaine and hip-hop engineer “LB” Dorsey who works with the Roots and Beyonce. Yet to be released, Rapp invites you to stay informed and in touch through his web site,

MORE INFORMATION, please visit:
Mark Rapp:
Southern Exposure:
Restaurant O:

"Mark Rapp Trio with Wycliffe Gordon at Dizzy's Coca-Cola"

This After-Hours set, with a hot, emerging trio, Mark Rapp on trumpet and didgeridoo (must be seen to be believed), Joe Kaplowitz on electric keyboard, Kyle Struve on drums, plus tonight’s special guest, the famed trombonist, Wycliffe Gordon, was a serendipitous and sensational musical adventure. Rapp’s long, winding, Aboriginal didgeridoo added a visually and aesthetically riveting element to this late night performance. And, Wycliffe Gordon, who fused straight jazz to this cultural, sometimes new age music, with his tantalizing trombone, was another welcome surprise.

The set exuded an abstract ambiance, as keyboard and drums added soft, primitive effects. There were solos blended with soft brushes or hushed keyboard, and there was Wycliffe’s turn with outsized sound and volume, echoing and embroidering the theme with surprising gestures. Staccato ripples of swing evoked a New Orleans mood. Rapp likes to present one passage, with each musician taking a twist and turn of rhythm and tone, a fascinating interplay, as trumpet slides over the drums.

When the didgeridoo was center stage, the audience became even more engaged, as the long, wooden instrument exuded its exotic sound. Suddenly Wycliffe seized the lead, and the trumpet returned to converse with the trombone in a waterfall of rapid, raging notes. - Dr. Roberta E. Zlokower

"A Soul's Journey"

"A couple of years ago, I had the pleasure of seeing trumpeter Mark Rapp debut an extended piece called "A Soul's Journey." The quality of the music and Mark's confidence in his playing impressed me, and impressed upon me that the deep pool of young very talented musicians is not only continuing to define their own voices, but group sounds as well."

— B. Singer - Where Y'at?

"RAPP: Back in the Day"

"When Jazz trumpeter Wynton Marsalis played Winthrop University two years ago, he called music performance major Mark Rapp '...a sharp young man. He plays with soul, has style and he's clean too...' Marsalis said."

— Pat Fitzgerald - The Herald

"Spotlight on an Emerging Artist: A 3-Part Series"


Spotlight on an Emerging Artist: - A three-part series

Artist Interview by: Veronica Timpanelli

Mark Rapp
Composer, trumpet, didgeridoo

Part One


"After more than a decade of practicing, gigging, school, work, travel - everything and anything – in essence, living life - all the while, never giving up on my dream – I find myself in preparations to showcase for numerous record labels, PR Firms, celebrities and more."

At 33, South Carolina born trumpeter, composer and didgeridoo player, Mark Rapp knows the importance of dreaming big, being persistent and having a good team. While he was attending Winthrop University, a few meetings with Wynton Marsalis led Mark to Study under Ellis Marsalis at the University of New Orleans where he earned his Masters degree and several prestigious music awards.

Mark has also performed with many greats such as Walter Blanding, Jr., Wess Anderson, Wycliffe Gordon, Seamus Blake, John Ellis, Brad Leali, and Rodney Green and as a sideman Mark has toured and played with Darius Rucker, Hootie and the Blowfish, Branford Marsalis, Edwin McCain and Sister Hazel. He has had a myriad of guest appearances from a Fox NFL commercial to New York artists Hired Goons, Charley Hustle, and turntablist Shitake Monkey. Mark is also a prolific composer and has written music for a number of independent films including Friendship Hotel and Night and Day.

Named one of Downbeat Magazine's Top Emerging Jazz Artists in June 2007, Mark now resides in New York City and has recently completed recording his first CD with Grammy award-winning producer Jason Olaine, and hip-hop engineer LB Dorsey.


"My dream: a successful musician playing concerts around the world (consistently and with longevity), earning a good living from my musical endeavors, leaving people in a better place than they were before hearing my music, and receiving enough popularity so I can raise significant awareness and aid for charities and organizations I believe in."

JazzReview: How does the present reflect that vision?

Mark Rapp: "Am I living my entire vision for myself today? Almost. I'm closer than I've ever been."


"I firmly believe 'If I think it, I can achieve it.' The power of intention – clearly envisioning what you want in your life, not letting go no matter what, and doing what it takes to get it – that is the driving force behind all great achievements.

Accepting your dreams as having already come true does many things:
You're telling yourself you are capable, you're good enough, you can handle the responsibility, and you often reveal the necessary steps to take in order to achieve them. Often times, you end up positioning yourself at the right places at the right time.

Surrendering to the process, for me, means taking those steps you discover you need to take. Bottom line, there is no free ride. You must accept what you have to do, then, do it in order to achieve desirable results.

Enjoying the ride – isn't that a tricky one? I have my moments, but I do not consistently revel the twists and turns. I am still figuring out how to have fun with this wild journey of daily life. What I do know is: There will be many milestones and points of interest, but they are not the ends. Life keeps going and you never ever know what the next 24-hours will bring – good or bad! All and all though, my glass is half full and I'm happy.


Mark describes his sound as "…bridging the gap between modern and contemporary jazz music. There's a wide division between the two, both artistically and in the audiences – I'm trying to connect the best of both worlds."

JazzReview: Do you feel your new CD accomplishes this?

Mark Rapp: "Yes, my compositions provide memorable frameworks upon which to explore modern jazz ideals. The listener will hear an actual melody and accessible grooves in my tunes. They'll have something immediate to grab onto, something they can understand. Furthermore, the melodies uphold musical integrity, which musicians will appreciate.

That brings me to my mission…I firmly believe jazz musicians can attract a far larger audience by getting back to writing memorable melodies, by providing the musical hooks which grab a layman's attention. Once you have them on board, you're free to show them around - expose them to something new. Now that you've taken them on a ride, be a good host and bring them safely back home with melody. To be honest, as humbled and impressed I am with the brilliant musicianship in New York, I rarely hear a modern jazz group playing memorable melodies."


Thankful for the opportunities he has been presented with, Mark gives credit to his "Dream Team."

"No-one gets anywhere without the help and support of many, many others. After so many years of doing everything myself, I'm learning to 'let go and let others.' It's not easy though. Take my management team for example: I have to allow that process to work and do my best to patiently let them go about their jobs and not butt in. I do not need to know all of the details they have to deal with and they don't have to get up every morning and play long-tones and scales – they have their job and I have mine.

Where I am now is an amazing place. I would imagine any emerging artist would be thoroughly blown away and grateful (as I am) to have the team I have.

My producer, Jason Olaine, won a Grammy while at Verve for a Hargrove/Brecker album. My manager, Michael Kline, was with Terence Blanchard (my idol) for about a decade. I've met with a new media company, HiFive, which is run by two guys from Verve records who won top sales and marketing awards. My Executive Producer, Marc Boriosi, found me online and thought he could help me out. He not only funded the recording, but loves working every day to get me out there. We communicate everyday via IM, etc.

JazzReview: Has the Internet (and MySpace specifically) been helpful in promoting your music?

Mark Rapp: The Internet has been a huge resource for me. I'm online the majority of the day - it's part of my day gig - so I research people and places, venues and opportunities, send a multitude of emails, network, etc.

As for my Executive Producer, Marc Boriosi, finding me, that is all about preparation meeting opportunity and being in the right place at the right time. If I hadn't made compromises and not taken on a day job, I would not have the presence I have on the web today and he would not have come across me. We make our choices and we do the best we can with them - fortunately, he found me.

The MySpace thing can be a wild world - it all depends on how you approach it and use it. As in life, you'll come across all kinds of people - nice, crazy, cool, fake, etc. But you can use it to your advantage and garner a lot of new supportive fans. I've made contact with more people than I ever thought I would from all over the world. It's an awesome way to promote yourself, especially if you are reaching out sincerely and with integrity.


A busy performance schedule has Mark appearing Fridays at the Carnegie Club in Manhattan and also regularly at the Rockwood Music Hall and other venues around the New York area. Mark and his band are presenting an official showcase for various record labels at Joe's Pub in New York on August 7.

In September, Mark will be performing back in his home state at Southern Exposure: Three days of wine, food, and music presented by The Cliffs in Greenville, South Carolina. Mark will be one of two main performers during the Sunday Jazz Brunch – the other artist… Branford Marsalis.

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NOTE: Mark Rapp is now based out of NY and Geneva, Switzerland!

- The Mark Rapp Group played the 2008 JVC Newport Jazz Festival culminating in a standing ovation. Also appearing were Herbie Hancock, Aretha Frankline, Chris Botti and more.

- Rapp appears on Travel Channel Hi-Def Documentary "Newport Jazz"

- Mark played the headlining concert with BRANFORD MARSALIS at the 2007 Southern Exposure Festival in SC. (SEE VIDEOS:

“Top emerging trumpeter.” - DownBeat Magazine

- Recorded debut CD with Grammy Award Winning Producer JASON OLAINE (Michael Brecker, Roy Hargrove) and hip-hop engineer Robert "LB" Dorsey (the Roots, Beyonce). Mixed by Greg Calbi (Branford Marsalis, John Scofield, REM, Paul Simon) at Sterling Sound.

- Sold Out shows at Blue Note NY (2x) and Joe's Pub

- Signed with Gail Boyd Artists (John Clayton, Don Braden). PR through Radio support, Neal Sapper

- Featured band for the National Urban League's Equal Opportunity Awards Gala the past 3-years in a row. Performing in front of the likes of Spike Lee, Morgan Freeman, Patti Labelle, News Anchors Chuck Scarborough and Lori Stokes, Secretary Chao, Avery Fisher, and more...

- 5 night run at Jazz at Lincoln Center's Dizzy's Club Coca-Cola.

- Performed for the USTA's US Open culminating in a performance for Christopher Reeves.

- Brought to Gstaad, Switzerland for private perfomances.

- New Orleans' Jazz & Heritage Festival, French Quarter Festival, City Stages, WC Handy Festival

- Numorous Charity Events in and around New York City.

For a complete bio, please go to: (management) (PR)

Called one of the hardest working musicians in New York City, Mark Rapp bridges the gap between modern and contemporary jazz music. In addition to being a passionate jazz trumpeter who was named one of the "top emerging jazz trumpeters" by Downbeat Magazine in 2007, Rapp performs the didgeridoo and is an accomplished composer and bandleader as well.

Staying true to his vision, Rapp consistently performs his originals and arrangements. He says, "I'm more interested in discovering and expressing the music in me – like Miles and Monk did. And we're finding the fertile middle-ground between contemporary accessibility and modern jazz idealism."

And for Rapp, this vision is paying off. His self-titled debut album, produced by Grammy award winner Jason Olaine (Michael Brecker, Roy Hargrove) and engineered by LB Dorsey (The Roots, Beyonce, Solange), is due out early '09 on Paved Earth Records.

“Mark Rapp brings a young man's fire to the jazz world with aggressive trumpet playing punctuated with emotion and commitment. The album sounds fresh and punchy, rhythmically complex and physical, and Mark's sound heralds a rising new star. In a time that jazz is struggling to redefine itself, Mark has refined the classic forms in a visceral, tactile way. Just a flat out enjoyable jazz record.” Greg Calbi, Senior Mastering Engineer at Sterling Sound in NYC, commenting on Rapp’s debut album.

Rapp’s featured performance at the 2008 JVC Newport Jazz Festival ended with a standing ovation. In addition to Newport, he has performed at the WC Handy Jazz Festival, Blue Note, Dizzy’s Coca-Cola Room and many other top clubs and festivals. He will be touring the country in support of his self titled CD in early '09.

Under the tutelage of Ellis Marsalis, Rapp earned a Masters in Jazz from the University of New Orleans. While living in New Orleans, Rapp often played the famed Snug Harbor, House of Blues, Tipitinas, as well as, playing the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival. He then moved to New York, where he has been rapidly climbing the ladder of success.

In addition to regular performances at the Carnegie Club in NY, the National Urban League featured Rapp 3 years in a row during their annual EOE Awards Gala. He has had the privilege to perform with Branford Marsalis, Walter Blanding, Jr., Wess Anderson, Wycliffe Gordon, Seamus Blake, John Ellis, Brad Leali, Rodney Green and more. In addition to leading the show, Rapp has toured with artist Darius Rucker, and has performed with rock acts Hootie & the Blowfish, Edwin McCain and Sister Hazel. Rapp has had a myriad of guest appearances on everything from a Fox NFL commercial to various NY artists and is also a prolific composer having written music for a number of independent film projects. He is a spokesman for SARAR clothing and other sponsorships are in the works.